User talk:Canada Jack

Welcome Johny Canuck to the John F. Kennedy Assassination article. It is good to find more people willing to examine the evidence presented to make their conclusions and not approach it the other way around. In addition, as this page is oft vandalized, the more eyes we have watching the page makes all of the editors job easier. Feel free to make edit's you feel are appropriate, keeping in mind WP:NOV, WP:FAITH and WP:VERIFY.

Welcome, and good luck. Ramsquire 00:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm asking for an Rfc [1] on the Clay Shaw page regarding the Max Holland article. Please comment. Ramsquire 17:18, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You've been on for less than a month and I'm dragging you into an argument. ;). Seriously though, I'd love to know if you have any thoughts on the subject. Ramsquire 17:23, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Johnny Canuck,

I'm afraid it has come to my attention that you need to change your username. We have an existing editer, User:JohnnyCanuck, and a rule that editors shouldn't have names likely to be confused with one another. (Obviously we have good reasons for that. And from what little I know, you really wouldn't want to be confused with the other guy.) This is policy, spelled out in Wikipedia:Username. Fortunately we have a process to change your username (and associate all you old contributions with the new name). Please pick out a new username and go to Wikipedia:Changing username to request the change.

Thank you, —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for putting in the request -- sorry about the kerfuffle below. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:16, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• It seems that someone has decided that you are my sockpuppet. Despite the fact that I don't think we've ever edited the same page. Anyways, if you want it removed, feel free to post at WP:AN/I. If you don't, I probably will in a few days. -- pm_shef 21:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• My advice to this user is to change names. For the record, I think it it likely that he is NOT a sockpuppet. However, the tag should stay displayed until this is cleared up. ED209 21:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

• I have already told this user, above, that he is required by policy to change usernames. What that has to do with you deciding he is a sockpuppet of one party or another in your, um, circle of dispute, I don't know. Why not tag him as a suspected sockpuppet of JohnnyCanuck? If you don't have any evidence for puppetry beyond his name (sounds like you don't) and if you think it's likely he's not a sockpuppet, why on earth would you think his page needs to be tagged like that?!?? I am removing the sockpuppet tags. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As requested, I've changed your username to User:Canada Jack. You will probably want to move your user pages to the new name. Warofdreams talk 02:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I took the liberty of moving the pages for you. I appreciate you cooperation, Canada Jack. I'm sorry I haven't had much of a chance lately to look over your work at Carl Lewis. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Due to all the great work you've been putting into Roswell incident, I wanted to invite you to join us! The project is undergoing a large expansion right now, and we need quality editors! We are a WikiProject with the goal of improving the quality of articles having to do with Ufology, Cryptozoology, the Supernatural, and other topics. We provide a centralized forum for concerns that effect multiple articles within our scope, as well as methods to rate and categorize articles by quality, get input on how to improve an article from our other members, and a collaborative project once a month where the whole project pitches in to make an article great. You won't be required to do anything special once you join; all that we ask of members is that they sign our participants page, though if you do join you may also find it useful to add some of our pages (especially our main talk page to your watchlist to keep yourself apprised of what we're up to. If you have questions about any of this, please don't hesitate to contact me directly. Thank you for your time, and happy editing! --InShaneee 15:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you were being too nit-picky on the length of missions, however I have changed that to say "over three days" instead of "four days", although that is commonly used. I saw a little of what you here doing to the Roswell article. I tried to improve that article in 2005, but I met with a lot of resistance from Dr Fil and an IP address user. The discussion page mentions a possible mediation or dispute resolution between you and Dr Fil. If that happens, let me know. Bubba73 (talk), 00:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I dunno about the nit-pick charge - the first four-day flight was the first flight to be up for four days, which the flight in question did not manage. This is even more true for the first two-week flight, where G7 was listed even though S9 was the first flight to be in space for two weeks. I mean, for a page which such a huge debate over what "rendezvous" means, I am rather amazed that there seems to be no problem with calling a flight which lasted 13 days and 18 hours the "first" two week flight when clearly it was not.

Besides, in this place we should be "nit-picky". IMHO.Canada Jack 00:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if you want to be nit-picky, Vostok 1 didn't make one complete revolution, but everyone counts it as one orbit. The articles on the individual flights refer to them as the number of days, properly rounded up if it is more than half of a day. The arguement over the rendezvous was started by a person who believes that the moon landings were fake. Bubba73 (talk), 02:09, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I read your latest message on my talk page. I admit that I got a little angry over what I thought was being too nit-picky, and I'm sorry. Later I decided that it was too small of a thing to get angry about. I was working on the Roswell article and others such as "Majestic 12" in late 2005 and gave up becuase of Dr Fil and 66.117.135.19. I haven't read the Roswell article lately, but I did read most of the talk page were you were involved, and I got a good sense of what has been going on. I'm on your side versus Dr Fil. In a choice between someone who I think is a little too nit-picky over facts and one that refuses to accept any fact that contradicts his beliefs, I'm going to pick the former every time! :-) So good luck with Roswell and other UFO articles, I appreciate what you are doing very much. If you need references, I probably have them. Bubba73 (talk), 01:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Based on your interests, you might be interested in looking at:

• Apollo program missing tapes
• Independent evidence for Apollo Moon landings
• Examination of Apollo moon photos

The first one had what I think are factual errors, you may know more about it. The second one is up for deletion/merge. Bubba73 (talk), 21:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

From Spitfire1 Sutton Hoo 1939 Pictures

I've just been looking at the Sutton Hoo article discussion, and am really interested in the fact that you have 1939 film and pictures: my mother was at the 1939 dig most days, as Basil Brown took her along (she was staying with her aunt, who was Mrs. Pretty's housekeeper, who was also putting up Basil Brown. I wonder if she might appear in any of your photos? She was 12 at the time.

I've just checked the film and in the initial sequence, there are only men present. Then in the second sequence, there is a part where a man is talking to a woman, but my uncle says that this my great-grandmother Mary Boyle (CW Phillips' remarried mother). There IS a sequence where we see three women from behind looking at the south end of the excavation. They seem to be adults, but one of them may be your mother. I work at a TV network and when I have a change, I will do a high-resolution screen capture of the film I have (I dumped it to an SP tape), and I will get a jpeg of the three women as well. Canada Jack 15:45, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spitfire - I realize I DO have a photograph of the same three women. Give me some contact info and I will e-mail it to you. Canada Jack 16:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Canada Jack, I have been away from WP quite a lot for the past couple of months owing to illness etc, and hadn't had a close look at the Sutton Hoo article discussion and the new images you uploaded. As you may know I put quite a lot of work into this article in January, and while I don't see myself as in 'possession' of it I do feel a little parental affection for it, shall we say... So this is just to say thankyou very much for making such a very useful contribution to it with those images, which it was generous of you to make generally available. I have had a lifelong professional interest in Sutton Hoo and of course I'm very familiar with the role played by your great-uncle in the whole affair. What a marvellous job he made of the 1940 publication under such difficult circumstances. With best wishes, Dr Steven Plunkett 21:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In practice the main policy on Wikipedia is "assume bad faith". If you want your pictures of the Sutton Hoo excavation to remain on wikipedia, please add {{gdfl}} or {{pd}} in the description of the pictures. User:Eagle 101's bot is removing the links to the pics and will probably continue to do so until you have added the necessary tags.--Berig 09:39, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

With your interest in Roswell, have you done any work on Majestic 12? Bubba73 (talk), 00:00, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is it correct that no one who actually saw the Roswell debris claim to have seen aliens? AFAIR, Marcel didn't say he saw aliens. Bubba73 (talk), 01:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've read a lot about Roswell, but one thing I don't remember reading is what happened to the debris. Was it destroyed? Does it still exist somewhere? Has anyone tried to track down what happened to it? Bubba73 (talk), 17:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reply. Has anyone tried to track down what happened to the debris? The GAO did a huge search for documents. Trying to track what happened to the debris seems like a natural thing to do. Did any document say anything about the disposition of the debris? It was supposed to be going to Writht-Patt, but I haven't read anything about it after it was in Texas. Bubba73 (talk), 18:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Something very similar was recovered five years later, but it no longer exists either: Ralph Horton flying saucer crash. Bubba73 (talk), 19:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Was planning to complete it, yes. In a couple of days or so. :) Sam Vimes | Address me 07:01, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done! Can I ask for a favour? Could you please check that the page as it is now agrees with the one-week-old version so that no errors have crept in? Sam Vimes | Address me 18:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for checking :) I didn't understand why you removed the WL from the women's relay because it was an AR though? I mean, you can set an area record without it being a world leading time? (It's not too likely, but could happen...) Sam Vimes | Address me 20:11, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nice job on the Carl Lewis article by the way. It's a coincidence, but the first article I contributed to in a big way the was the Ben Johnson article back in October of '05. The version that is up there now is a shadow of it's former self because of the unencyclopedic way that I wrote it. Check it out - you might enjoy it if you're a track fan.[2] Cheers.--Yankees76 19:48, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You've made your point, and the concensus is not with you. Please consider 'cooling off'. I have added a 'disclaimer' per your suggestion.Ryoung122 17:47, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Basically, I feel like you are wrong. I'm also disappointed you didn't bother to read what I wrote before you continued your attempt to 'roll a boulder uphill.' Let me put it this way: being 'world's oldest person' is more honorable than merely being 'oldest man' or 'oldest woman' (which encompasses only about half the Earth's population). Since anyone can qualify for the 'oldest person' title...even transgendered persons who are neither male nor female...then we need an 'oldest person' list. The 'oldest person' list is the MOST important, not the least important. We could have an 'oldest woman' list but that would be currently redundant. It is not too much to ask to wait until 2008, when a hypothetical problem becomes a real problem (i.e. we won't have an 'oldest man' in the top 10 until about Aug 2008, based on current projections). With lots of work to do in other areas, it seems you'd have a little more consideration than you have shown so far.Ryoung122 08:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Canada Jack,

Wikipedia is not the place for ORIGINAL RESEARCH. Guinness World Records has named 'oldest living person' and 'oldest living man' since before I started there. Wikipedia should 'reflect' what is already in the press, not create their own, competing version.

Further, what you consider a 'gain' for women is just one way of looking at it. Is it more to say that a woman is the oldest of 51% of the human population, or 100%? I would think that 100% carries more prestige. Also, such a list would match the 'oldest person' list for something like 35 out of the last 36 persons...a redundant waste. And for the woman (Julie Winnifred Bertrand) 'unfortunate' enough to die six days before Emiliano Mercado Del Toro? She's already listed in the '115+' list which is INTENDED to catch those who might otherwise not be listed. That includes persons such as Bettie Wilson and Susie Gibson, both of whom lived to 115 but fell in the shadow of Maria Capovilla. Note that if we created a list of the 'world's oldest women', not a single woman would be listed who isn't already on the page, since at least 1986.

Also, your 1/3 analogy doesn't make sense. Truthfully, in the last 20 years men have held the top title for only 44 days...

Ryoung122 12:32, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is to provide you with a required notice that you have violated the Wikipedia:Three-revert rule on numerous occasions, including twice in the last week on "Roswell incident." As stated on the 3 revert rule Wiki page:

"An editor must not perform more than three reverts, in whole or in part, on a single page within a 24-hour period. A revert means undoing the actions of another editor, whether involving the same or different material each time.

"Any editor who breaches the rule may be blocked from editing for up to 24 hours in the first instance, and longer for repeated or aggravated violations."

Specific violations of the 3 revert rule are as follows:

Roswell incident: Nov. 2, 2007: 4 reverts Oct. 28/29: 7 reverts

Witness accounts of Roswell incident: June 11, 2007: 4 reverts November 20/21, 2006: 7 reverts November 13, 2006: 4 reverts November 7/8, 2006: 6 reverts

There are numerous other instances of quick deletions of my material by you. Wikipedia also frowns on repeated deletions of another editor's material even if not in technical violation of the 3 RR rule (you have also been guilty of this):

"Editors may still be blocked even if they have made three or fewer reverts in a 24 hour period, if their behavior is clearly disruptive. Efforts to game the system, for example by persistently making three reverts each day or three reverts on each of a group of pages, cast an editor in a poor light and may result in blocks."

Wikipedia notes that repeated deletions or reverts of another editor's good faith edits with no attempt at first discussing the issues is an example of edit warring. "A content revert is an intentional reversal of the changes made in good faith by another editor rather than improving upon the edit or working with the editor to resolve the dispute; it is not to be taken lightly."

Editors who may not technically violate 3RR but show a consistent pattern of reverting other's work may be held in violation:

"...there are other measures that indicate may edit warring, even in the absence of a 3RR violation. This could mean 4+ reverts on a page in a day, or three, or one per day for a protracted period of time, or one per page across many pages, or simply a pattern of isolated blind reverts as a first resort in response to disagreeable edits."

Wikipedia states that you can possibly mitigate violations of 3RR:

"I have violated 3RR. What do I do?

If you have broken 3RR by mistake and now realize it, or if another user has left you a note on your talk page that points out that you broke 3RR, then you should revert your change back to the "other version", even though you may not like the previous version. In general, this should be enough to prevent you from being blocked, although there are no guarantees.

If you do a restoration of the material you have deleted within the next 24 hours, I will not put you on report. I have no problems with good-faith discussions of the material that has been added. What I object to is how you always delete the material first then later maybe add a supposed "discussion" on it where you feel you always have to have the last word, contrary to guidelines laid down by Wikipedia.

Please read the section on the Do's and Don'ts of reversion. In part it says:

• Reverting is used primarily for fighting vandalism, or anything very similar to the effects of vandalism. (Vandalism is NOT another editor trying to add material that you personally disagree with.)
• ”If you are not sure whether a revert is appropriate, discuss it FIRST rather than immediately reverting or deleting it. (You always delete first before "discussing")
• ”If you feel the edit is unsatisfactory, improve it rather than simply reverting or deleting it. (You almost always just delete.)
• ”Do not simply revert changes that are made as part of a dispute. Be respectful to other editors, their contributions and their points of view.
• ”Do not revert good faith edits. (Hey, I work hard and spend a lot of time trying to add good, solid material to these articles. They are always done in good faith. Please respect that.)
• ”If what one is attempting is a positive contribution to Wikipedia, a revert of those contributions is inappropriate unless, and only unless, you as an editor possess firm, substantive, and objective proof to the contrary. Mere disagreement is not such proof.
• ”Generally there are misconceptions that problematic sections of an article or recent changes are the reasons for reverting or deletion. If they contain valid information, these texts should simply be edited and improved accordingly. Reverting is not a decision which should be taken lightly.

Also please read Wikipedia:Ownership of articles, where it states certain editors may feel they own articles and justify reverts for frivolous reasons as a way of "defending" "their" article. Wikipedia tries to encourage contributions of many editors to an article. "Consensus" does not mean stagnation and Wikipedia also warns against "tag-teaming" by a small group of editors to block any changes and to enforce ownership.Dr Fil 19:23, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And you have been hereby warned of the same, Dr Fil. You are guilty of imposing substantial rewrites of pages WITHOUT ANY DISCUSSION, and of ignoring repeated requests to halt your actions without entering into discussions.

And, you have it utterly backwards. YOU are the one not operating in good faith, The Roswell page has been the product of a painful process which took the better part of a year. If you think you can simply tear that up, insert a lot of irrelevant material and THEN enter into discussion, then you are operating in reverse. I invited you to discuss these changes each time I reverted them - you actually entered into discussion ONCE. Therefore YOU are not operating in good faith.

Some of you material, despite your approach, WAS kept as it was relevant and added important detail to the page. But most of it was extraneous and irrelevant. And each and every deletion was explained.

Your changes were reverted for cause, and if you want to go to arbitrators, so be it. I have repeatedly said that your changes are welcome - if they are done in the proper manner and are relevant. Turning a synopsis of a book into the longest section on the page is not helpful, or reasonable. Citing the need to "balance" unfavorable accounts of a UFO author with stuff on skeptics wasn't omitted because it needed to be censored, it was omitted because it was completely IRRELEVANT. The UFO author was mentioned because it was his research with ROSWELL which was questionable, NONE of the stuff about the skeptics you mentioned had ANYTHING to do with Roswell, therefore it has no place on the page. What here do you not get?

And I will take this to the arbitrators since you clearly are not operating under any normal rules of conduct, you seek to turn this into a pro-UFO page when the function should be to elucidate on the various aspects of the case, NOT to build a pro and con court case. Your approach here is wildly out of whack with what goes on Wikipedia. So if the result here is not what you expect, it is because others will identify what I have identified - you are utterly missing the point of what these pages should be about. Canada Jack 05:05, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Before I had an account, I was blocked for 33 hours for my first offense. What's up with that? Also, I had been removing vandalism; the person who kept putting it back in was the one who violated the 3rr first, but I couldn't figure out how to block him/her.Hawkrawkr (talk) 19:22, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The format of your recent request was completely unsuitable. As with all help pages, editors need to follow the instructions in the header when they post questions and doing otherwise can result in other questions being prioritised. When an editor fails to follow the clearly stated posting instructions, they should not be surprised if someone brings that shortcoming to their attention when they bemoan the absence of replies, particularly at a project page that has recently become busier by a factor of at least four in the last two weeks. The limited number of staffers can no longer answer every request. If those of us who work very hard to keep EA going miss your request or opt not to assist, that does not permit you to make comments like that. If you were a new editor, that would garner an NPA warning, but I have opted for the softer approach of merely editing the comment to remove the attack. If the other respondents did not see it prior to that point, they may still reply if they have the time to do so, but assistance may not be forthcoming otherwise. Adrian M. H. 10:21, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, you totally rock! This [3] is the best answer I have ever read on the topic! --Kralizec! (talk) 16:50, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I read your work on the Roswell main and talk page. I love how you typed and edited everything. Nice work. You rock out loud!! MKguy42192 (talk) 01:07, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I was going to link an external source, but as it turns out there is no need. Just read the very first phrase on Split infinitive. It is a grammatical construction, and the choice to use it pertains to grammatical considerations. It is advisible to use it only if the phrase in question would be ambiguous without it, which is not the case. Retaining the term "successfully" does not lead to keeping the split infinitive. Further, by simply reverting, you restored a type of language unsuited for an encyclopedia (that sentence beginning with "Also, he is..."). We need to adhere to higher standards in terms of language, and that is why I modified it. Reverting is often used as a quick way to change things back in an article, but it is necessary to look at the entire scope of the changes made, since a revert will erase everything.
That said, I will restore, or rather, remove again the split infinitive, but this time by moving the word "successfully" to the end of the relevant sentences. I believe that solves the problem. Redux (talk) 02:39, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Glad you saw what I meant on the Roswell page. I am new so it would not have been THAT unusual for me to make a mistake. cheers Derekbd (talk) 16:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I got involved in the Estonian longevity claims because User:Kask complained that he added Maria Tomson on the page Oldest people but it was deleted there. Different people on the talk page commented differently on the rules of that page. There is no explanation on the page and there also is no explanation on the National recordholders page. I added Maria Tomson and Juhan Kallaste there because when I asked on which page Maria Tomson could be mentioned someone recommended me that page. Please place the mentions on the right place. If no relevant pages link to them then there is no use of the articles.

In the article Maria Tomson I wrote everything I know. In Estonia only enthousiasts collect data on centenarians, as far as I know. The main enthousiast, Helje Loopere, died lately, and I am not sure whether anyone knows who is the current oldest person in Estonia. I read that Helje Loopere had her little apartment full of documents. There also is a national record book where Maria Tomson is mentioned as the oldest Estonian ever. I am not sure where to start research. I know a demographer, I'll ask if he knows anything on the topic. Andres (talk) 16:50, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are interested in genealogy and there is a project in Estonia about this subject [4]. But for entering it needs log in. The books about Lutherian Church (luterlik kirik) are in German and the books about Orthodox Church (apostliku õigeusu kirik) are in Russian. I don't know what was Tomson's name before weddings, then is her birth and weddings checking now. Kalev Kask (talk) 20:12, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stop reverting the Burj Dubai article, you are clearly wrong in your statement, the construction shots ARE themself sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.217.135.239 (talk) 16:58, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Before we are forced block you, I suggest you read the discussion page on Burj Dubai. There has been a long discussion on what RELIABLE sources are pertinent here. Time to brush up a bit on how wikipedia works, 84. Canada Jack (talk) 17:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am a little iffy on this edit. What do you think? --Kralizec! (talk) 12:14, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You say that Emaar is a reliable source but if you go to the official website the height is still 629.0 meters but you quote a height of 636 meters which does not appear on the Burj Dubai offical website. I understand that this 636 meters is on an article that Emaar released but although it says 636 meters it also says 2,064 feet not 2,087. Obviously Emaar said 636 meters and 2,064 feet but you put 2,087 feet so you are putting up false information. Another thing is that both Emaar sources conflict with each other as one says 629 meters and another says 636 meters. Since Emaar obviously does not know the conversion between feet and meters and they quote different heights on different sites they are unreliable as a source. It doesn't even say when the tower reached 636 meters. It just says the tower is over 636 meters and Emaar does not even list 636 meters on their offical Burj Dubai site. On top of that they claim the tower is both 636 meters and 2,064 feet right next to each other in the same article. Since 636 meters is not 2,064 feet which height is correct? 2,064 feet corresponds roughly to 629 meters another height that Emaar simultaneously claims on the Official Burj Dubai website. This leaves me to beleive that Emaar is not reliable source because of conflicts between its articles, outdated information, and inaccuries betwen feet and meters. They obviously have no idea what they are quoting. 636 meters and 2,064 feet are not the same thing! I suggest we stop using Emaar as a source and use www.BurjDubaiskyscraper.com because it is a much more reliable, accurate, updated, and clear source with thousands of pictures, videos, and links. Emaar gives us none of these pictures, diagrams or nothing.Maldek (talk) 21:58, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

If you do not know or belive in aliens you should not offend the ones who do belive. The reason I come forward with this message is because of many people being very and highly offended just because they belive in aliens. You do not have the right to discrimanate the people who do belive.

5:56 June 12, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikkilubbsyou (talk • contribs) 22:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And when did I offend those who believe in aliens? I've had some very cordial correspondence with Stanton Friedman, one of the most prominent alien researchers around, might ask him if I sneer at his beliefs. I will sneer at those who seem offended when they slap nonsense on pages riddled with typos lacking even the barest references and I revert. If you don't like playing by the rather simple rules here, then leave. Canada Jack (talk) 14:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If any offend those who believe, they are only offending their own relatives, friends, and nature.MKguy42192 (talk) 01:12, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - you're invited to join in a discussion on the inclusion of the EU in the List of countries by GDP (nominal) article. Regards SilkTork *^YES! 23:13, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jack. I enjoy very much your argumentations on this mediation case. You have brought a bunch of new insights (I adjusted parts of my opinion) and your explanation as to what the core business of wikipedia is--even though we should all know it--appears also very helpful to me. I hope that by your entry, the discussion will continue better mannered now than it has been in the last two days, when it was (perhaps also due to my actions) not very nice.

There is however one question that I would like to ask. How does it fit into your concept of being absolutely true to the sources that the CIA also ranks the EU in their list. I feel that all editors expressed that the EU is either not listed or listed unranked. Would you really like to rank it at CIA, thereby reflecting even clearer how different the definitions of the three sources are? Tomeasy_talk 16:15, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was not fully satisfied by your answer because of this CIA ranking In case of the GDP PPP the CIA does publish a ranking and not only an alphabetical list. Consequently, also the EU is ranked in this list. We do not know why the CIA has ranking and alphabetical list for the PPP data, but only an alphabetical list for the nominal exchange rates. However, I think that the published ranking for the PPP influences the case we are considering as well, for the following reason. The outcome of the mediation will hopefully settle the EU issue for the GDP nominal article and its sister article for the GDP PPP.

To understand more clearly your approach to this situation, let me ask you two questions: (a) Do you target a common guideline for both articles? (b) If so, I would just want to ask the question from my first posting again, explicitly with respect to the PPP article and thus implicitly for the nominal one; if not, wouldn't it be weired to excluded the ranking on the nominal list (because the source does not force us to use it) while at the same time list the EU ranked on CIA (because of the maxim to be as true as possible)? Tomeasy_talk 17:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the long reply. I had read all your postings on the article talk page and understood already from there. I absolutely agree with your reasoning. My question was merely about this ranking detail in the CIA list. Also here, I agree that we exclude the ranking for the EU, even if the CIA does not for the case of the GDP PPP. However, I do feel a little bit shaky on this ground, because we are second-guessing the source here. Good you pointed out that also the world is ranked in the CIA. This shows that in the CIA ranking, the number on the left is not meant to be the rank but merely the number of the row. Tomeasy_talk 19:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh wait. I fixed the map but I never replaced the old one. I am honestly sorry. I replaced some of the other ones though. Thanks for letting me know but I think its already resolved. regards --Geographyfanatic (talk) 23:28, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

oops, I think the replacement was flawed as well. It included Belarus : -). I had to redo it myself. I hope it looks fine now.--Geographyfanatic (talk) 23:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Mediation discussion regarding the inclusion of the EU in List of countries by GDP (nominal) has come to a conclusion with the following result:

• The EU to remain in List of countries by GDP (nominal).
• The EU to be positioned according to GDP rank between World and USA.
• No consensus on the EU appearing in all three charts. By convention this means the situation would remain as current - that is the EU remains on all three charts.
• Data for the EU on each chart to only be given if sourced, otherwise a dash to replace the data.
• Explanation to be placed in the lead section for the appearance of the EU and other non-countries. Possible wording: "Several economies which are not normally considered to be countries are included in the list because they appear in the sources. These economies are not ranked in the charts here, but are listed in sequence by GDP for comparison."
• The List retains the current name.
• A suggestion by Tomeasy that I feel should be carried out is that the sister articles are given the same treatment as agreed above.

Unless there are significant disagreements within the next 48 hours I will be closing the Mediation. Any questions, please get in touch. Regards SilkTork *^YES! 10:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The nominal GDP reported on the CIA website is obviously a typo. They report the PPP GDP just one line above and its value is more than 20 times lower. So this is not a case of an intentional deviation from common standards as in our previous discussion.

Leaves the question, what the precise intended value was. Certainly it is 10-20 times smaller than the reported one. If it is the exact 10 times smaller appears really as original research until this exact value is found in context with the CIA. I even doubt that it is exactly 20 times, because it differ still too much from the PPP value. I would guess the factor is even larger. But we should not guess around here. So the footnote should not be so confident in suggesting what the intended value is, as there is no evidence for either 3,33 or 3,63 as you've pointed out.

How to deal with it in the list. Here, I think we differ. The list is for comparison and I think Liechtenstein is much better placed for the somewhat arbitrary value 3,63 that is at least the correct order of magnitude. We should not place it at the position referring to the obviously wrong figure, since people will learn to relate its economic volume to the wrong countries. Tomeasy_talk 23:59, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. We need to make clear that—whatever number we put in order to get Liechtenstein into the correct neighborhood—this number is just an estimate of the magnitude and free of the claim that it precisely is the intended figure by the CIA. I am happy that you agree we should aim at putting Liechtenstein somewhere around 3.5, so that the comparison property of an ordered ranking is preserved. I think italic would be better than bold, as it is more often italic that refers to some tricky thing underlying data than bold. Bold would rather seem to indicate that this Liechtenstein figure is more important to observe than the others, which is not at all what we want to show.

With respect to the numerical inconsistency, I think it cannot be ascribed to an exchange rate fluctuation. Actually, as I understand this statement you can compute the underlying population absolutely independent from the exchange rate. To make my point clear: Even if the exchange rate changed dramatically, the first part of the quoted sentence leads you to the conclusion that in 2004 Liechtenstein had 3,441,000/130.277 = 26413 inhabitants. Three years later, whatever the exchange rate is, Liechtenstein's population is apparently 3,633,000/106.082 = 34247. So, I absolutely agree to your initial suspicion that there is something wrong. Obviously, Liechtenstein's population did not grow by 30% in this time frame. BTW, assuming that the population was constant and the only wrong or unknown figure is GDP in 2007, we can conclude that this number is 26413*106.082=2,802,000. This, however does not look good either, because I cannot imagine that Liechtenstein's $GDP declined by 19% in three year. Bottom line, the footnote is fishy. Tomeasy_talk 15:28, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please, go ahead, I am sure you'll do it right. Actually, I am at work and shouldn't do all this now ;-) Tomeasy_talk 15:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

		The Hidden Page Barnstar
		I award you one for finding User:Trekphiler's page for people who always think that "new message" bar is real. Aren't you glad you checked your mail? TREKphiler hit me ♠ 10:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to (almost) repost the same message that I left for User:Bart Versieck on your talk page. Unless the policy has changed, I'd like to note that indefinitely blocked and banned users are not allowed a voice or an opinion on this project, that's why they were blocked/banned. Giving them one, as you did for the indef. blocked Robert Young here, can land you in the same type of trouble, so a friendly recommendation is to not do it. Robert Young, as with all users in his position, have had their editing privileges revoked and, as such, do not get a say on Wikipedia. It's one of the reasons it takes so much to indef. block or ban users is because the consequences are so harsh.

If I have misinterpreted "In the interest of furthering discussion, here are some comments to the above from Mr. Young" and you are not posting for an indef blocked user, please excuse the misunderstanding. Cheers, CP 18:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you are unaware, but Robert Young was blocked because he had an extensive campaign of on-site and off-site harassment of several Wikipedia editors and administrators and generally refusing to abide by Wikipedia's principles. If you choose not to research or appreciate the gravity and seriousness of the situation, that is fine, but he has lost his voice on this website. Whatever your opinion, this response is completely inappropriate and, as a long time user, you should be familiar with WP:CIVIL. I will give you a chance to revert your irrelevant personal attack from the talk page yourself. Cheers, CP 18:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have made a request at Wikiquette alerts in hopes that this issue will be quickly resolved. Cheers, CP 19:39, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like to point out that, as an indefinitely blocked user, Robert Young gets no say on this, or any Wikipedia page, and users who continue to proxy post for him are subject to similar consequences. Cheers, CP 18:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

CP, speaking as a fellow Canadian, could you please be a little bit less of an asshole? Thanks. Canada Jack (talk) 18:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've been on wikipedia for several years and I have never been threatened as I have been - twice - today, by CP. CP, back off, and cease being an asshole. I don't know who the hell you think you are, but grow up. Canada Jack (talk) 19:20, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And, just for the record, since CP has made this a big issue, this page was discussing about proposals for a revamp of the page. It is not for discussing the various disputes one has with past members. What he is talking about, I have not a clue, but it seems clear to me that CP seeks to avoid discussion by threatening other members, as I have just personally experienced. I have one word for that, and I won't use it again. Canada Jack (talk) 19:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you noticed, I started the proposal, I am the one initiating all of the discussion, and I am the one who provided the first (and thus far only) alternate vision for the page. So I am not seeking "to avoid discussion by threatening other members"; much the opposite, I started it and am streamlining it. No one has been threatened, only warned not to post in proxy. I am mentioning it on this page, since so many users are posting in proxy for him here. It saves me from having to tell everyone on individual pages every time it occurs. Cheers, CP 19:43, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You threatened me, CP, pure and simple. You were drawing this discussion into something completely different, and I bluntly called you on it. Your response was to say you'd drag me in front of some arbritation - which you went ahead and did. You are the one who turned this discussion into something else, not me. Take your petty disputes elsewhere. Canada Jack (talk) 19:52, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please quote where I threatened you in the Wikiquette alert thread then and quit posting on Talk:Oldest people about this. Cheers, CP 20:00, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for removing your b.s, CP. Please refrain in the future from your thinly veiled attempts to change the subject. Canada Jack (talk) 20:09, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm here from Wikiquette. Canada Jack, it does seem like you are being pretty WP:UNCIVIL to Canadian Paul. Even if he were being an asshole, you shouldn't say so. It wouldn't help him be less of one, would it? It would only make him madder. However, as I read things, he seems to be entirely polite -- and entirely right that posting stuff from banned users is a huge no-no. If I'm not seeing something here, please let me know, but whatever the case, I think it'd be a really good idea if you'd refactor your comments. IronDuke 22:42, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I remember you did some work on sport's world record articles. I wonder if you could answer the question here: Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Entertainment#800m freestyle times Thanks Rmhermen (talk) 00:10, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

As a regularly contributing UK Wikipedian, we were wondering if you wanted to contribute to the Oxford bid to host the 2010 Wikimania conference. Please see here for details of how to get involved, we need all the help we can get if we are to put in a compelling bid.

We are also in the process of forming a new UK Wikimedia chapter to replace the soon to be folded old one. If you are interested in helping shape our plans, showing your support or becoming a future member or board member, please head over to the Wikimedia UK v2.0 page and let us know. We plan on holding an election in the next month to find the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board who after obtaining charitable status will start the fund raising, promotion and active support for the UK Wikimedian community for which the chapter is being founded.

You may also wish to attend the next London meet-up at which both of these issues will be discussed. If you can't attend this meetup, you may want to watch Wikipedia:Meetup, for updates on future meets.

We look forward to hearing from you soon, and we send our apologies for this automated intrusion onto your talk page!

Addbot (talk) 22:41, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What is your point about deleting stuff from the 100m progression table? Nergaal (talk) 17:21, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Your statements are ^{[citation needed]}s. Check this: http://www.athletix.org/Statistics/wr100men.htm. Nergaal (talk) 17:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the article you so much declare yourself proud of, lacked any sort of refferencing, and therefore can be deleted at any time. Nergaal (talk) 17:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings,

It seems the "Oldest people" article is threatening to spin out of control...thanks for coming back. A lot of this is "recentist" bias: expanding the "10 oldest men" list to 15 was just a ruse to put Tomoji Tanabe on the page, IMO. He looks to be in great shape, no need to rush things.Ryoung122 03:05, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Canada Jack,
About 18 months ago when you uploaded a couple of stills from your movie of 1939, I wrote you a line above: in those days I passed by my own name User:Dr Steven Plunkett, but am now User:Eebahgum as I wanted some anonymity and a less formal handle! It would be a great help to research a little more about the date your film was made. Basil Brown in his diary said that 'Mr Phillips's brother' (I take it Harold John Phillips) left the site around 31 July, though the pictures you uploaded suggest a slightly later phase of the clearance of the ship - maybe he came back? Do you happen to have the date, or indeed other dates of the comings and goings of members of the family, including Mrs Boyle? I wonder if you would be willing to chat ex-Wikipedia about a couple of other related queries?
Best wishes & hope all's well, Eebahgum (talk) 14:34, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hiya CJ. The magic bullet theory always hurt the Warren Commission's findings credability IMO. Anways, there's nothing I can add to the article. GoodDay (talk) 19:58, 31 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

However the suppossed single bullet was found on a stretcher in the hospital, in mint condition. GoodDay (talk) 21:14, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still not convinced. But then, I also don't believe that humans have landed on the moon. Anyways, I've no intentions of making changes to the Oswald article. GoodDay (talk) 21:27, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still not convinced of Oswald's being guilty. Oh well. GoodDay (talk) 23:33, 1 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm talking here because this discussion no longer has any place in the USA discussion board. If you think that by banning guns altogether, like those sold in gun stores, than you will keep criminals from getting them, you are dead wrong. UK cast a gun ban a while ago, and in a short documentary on the subject, a thug was interviewed on the streets of London. He said, and I quote: "It's a crock. Criminals are going to get their guns no problem." Criminals don't need legal gun stores to get their hands on guns. One way, and everyone can use this resource, is the Black Market. You can buy just abouut anything that shoots or explodes on the Black Market. If you take away guns, only the law-abiding citizens will give up their guns. What makes you think that a criminal will turn in his guns because the government tells him to? If he did everything the government told him to, he wouldn't be a criminal in the first pace, and before that even, there wouldn't be a need for gun bans if everyone abided by the law. So actually it is your arguement that defeats itself, not mine.Prussian725 (talk) 13:28, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would argue that with the fact that gun control has no bearing on the difficulty/ease of criminals getting their hands on guns. Guns are here, and there's nothing we can do about it. We can, however, ensure that people who wish to have a weapon/weapons to defend themselves and their families with have access to vendors who sell the means to do so. And I would go further than that to say that there souldn't be specific "type" of gun sold, because that just opens the door wide open to gun control and then we are back to point A. It is remarkably easy to aquire guns, explosives, even tanks, on the black market on which nobody has a tight enough leash to stem it's operation. But it still comes down to the thinking that taking away guns will cripple, or even eliminate, crime, and that just simply isn't the case. Guns have been around for approx. 500 years, people have been killing each other for thousands. If I really wanted to kill someone, I could hit them with a car, I could throw a brick at their head, I could stab them in the neck while they slept...etc., it comes down to the individual, and unfortunately, no government on Earth, or directives thereof, can ever govern the way a man thinks or feels. Murder is going to be here forever, so the best thing to do is to be prepared to defend yourself, and in America we think that is a fundamental right.Prussian725 (talk) 23:41, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you, Prussian725. Here, in Italy, people are attacked in their own homes by criminals with guns (as you correctly say, criminals have no problem obtaining guns), and the poor victims cannot legally protect themselves or their families because of gun control. If there was that type of gun control in America, the country would rapidly descend into a maelstrom of violence against innocent, law-abiding citizens who would have to stand by helplessly and watch their wives and daughters being raped, their sons beaten and killed, their homes robbed and ransacked by dangerous, armed criminals, thanks to liberals who just want to change the Constitution, AGAINST THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE. --jeanne (talk) 07:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well Jack I must thank you for your civility through all this. Perhaps you do have a point about the pre-existing amount of guns in a certain place. One thing I would like your opinion on is resisting a tyranny. I would even use my own country's birth as an example. One of my distant ancestors fought alongside "Swamp Fox" in the colonial militia. They were made up of regular citizens, many of them veterans of the French and Indian War, but do you think they would have been as effective had they had to go to the government or army to aquire arms, or simply didn't exist because none of them were allowed access to firearms?Prussian725 (talk) 16:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well said. That an armed citizenry would not do much, at least conventionally, against a modern army is one point on which I have thought a lot. I am still personally undecided on this point, but there are some who say that absolutely no restrictions should be made as to what weapons the public shoudl be open to, i.e., tanks, aircaft, explosives...etc. Like I said I still remain undecided as I have not done enough research into that particular subject. On another subject, I will admit that my nation is one of fighters, not at all saying that yours doesn't (WWI, WWII...etc.), but I think that it also has to do with the general populace. Americans of the 1770s were very different from Americans now. Maybe I am biased because I am one, but most Americans back then were Christians or at least called themselves Christians, and I think that our nation was generally a God-fearing nation. As can be suggested from such an observation, most (but by no means all) Americans would not use their weapons for crime or selfish ambitions, and therefore could be trusted quite liberally with weapons and such. (what is your opinion on this?) The flipside would be that nowadays, more people than before would use firearms for what I call "evil". (my Christianity again) This brings up a difficult point, at least for me, because it brings into question whether or not the government should decide what the people can and can't be trusted with, which I guess it already does. What do you think?Prussian725 (talk) 03:58, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see what you are saying. I want to share with you the fact that in my home state of Texas, gun sales have sky-rocketed since a week or two before the 4th, and have been, and still are, at a record high since then. I was at the gun store just today, and the weapons I was looking for had all sold out. This obviously shows that many Americans are concerned, if not scared, that Obama is going to try to take away firearms; he is, after all, the most liberal member of our Congress. He has even talked of creating a "civilian defense force" that will be "just as strong and well-equiped as our Army". I know for a fact that I am not the only one down whose spine shivers have been sent by these and other remarks.

Now, I know that using the Nazi or Communist rise to power is not really applicable since Hitler and Lenin were welcomed into their countries' governments. That is why I am using the French Resistance as just one example. I know it wasn't hugely effective in driving out the Germans, far from it, but I have one point which I derive from this situation. The majority of the French people obviously were not resistant of the Nazis; I use the British as a comparison of people who would "never surrender", and who did not end up being taken over. (whether or not they would have been wiped out is debateable) But back to the Resistance. I think that if the whole of France could have been called the French Resistance, then the Germans would not have had as easy of a time beating the French, and perhaps would have either backed out, or just obliterated the French people altogether (the Nazis, of course, needed subjects so they stayed).

That being said, I think that conservative Americans fear that a takeaway of guns could easily lead to other fundamental freedoms being trampled. I know it's far-fetched, but it is a very real fear of Americans that should someone like Adolf Hitler, Mao...etc., be elected, and the American people be without guns, then our rights could be trampled and we could do nothing but take it. We may not be ultimately victorious in crushing an army sent against us, but at least we would die with our freedoms intact. I will even look to the Vietnam War. I personally do not believe that we were "beaten" or "lost", but that debate is for another place. What I am saying is that in Vietnam we had a tough and determined enemy. By their simple stubbornness not to capitulate or lay down their arms, I mean the Communists, they were able to prove that our politicians were not really behind the effort, and Washington eventually pulled out our troops because the going wasn't easy, a foolish assumption on our government's part, but the point still remains.

If someone wanted to take away guns in America, there would be a bloodbath. That is just simple fact. It comes from a fear that without guns, we would be pawns, like in a Communist country, and would lose our freedoms should someone with the mind to take them come along. We may not be comparable to a modern army, but at least we would not be, to a certain degree, slaves, and that is what we fear.Prussian725 (talk) 01:35, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Without an armed militia, the US colonists could never have defeated Britain in the War of Independence, and later as Americans in the War of 1812. Guns are a cruel, dangerous but neccessary evil. I hate them because in a split second they can wipe out a human life, either in an act of folly, during a marital quarrel, or by a child getting his hands on his daddy's gun and shooting his little sister or best pal. But without them, American citizens would be sitting ducks for marauding criminal gangs as well as a possible totalitarian government. As for Hitler, although he hated the French as a nation, I don't think he would have eliminated the French people due to the fact that they were a Frankish people and therefore part of the German race. Same with the English, themselves being descendants of Angles and Saxons. He would have probably instigated a programme to re-educate the French and English children to regard themselves as nothing but German had the Nazis completely conquered the two nations.--jeanne (talk) 09:30, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(Canada Jack, please let me know if you do not wish to host this brief discussion, I mean the one between the three of us, not you and I) I would not necessarily call guns "evil". In actuality, they are an assembly of metal and wood, or plastic as the case may be. On those grounds, I do not believe that guns are evil since they are inanimate objects, but like any other tool, they can be used for good or evil. About the Germans, from the research I have done, the Nazis held a grudge against the French and all of the Allies for the outcome of WWI. They also did view the french as inferior since they were not "Nordic" in descent or lifestyle. Maybe they were some time ago, but the nazis were notorious for manipulating fact and reality to push their views. They did eventually start conscripting troops from all of their occupied lands once the need for personnel arose and Germany was almost fresh out. It does of course bring up the way Nazis treated "Slavs and other trash", mainly the Russians. The Nazis destroyed the Russians whereever they found them, so I have to wonder why they did not do the same to the French.Prussian725 (talk) 18:06, 27 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I am a student of war, not in a class, but I have studied it extensively for years now. And I am aware of the ungodly amount of deaths that resulted from WWII; my great-grandfather was a combat medic in the 2nd wave at Omaha Beach and Battle of the Bulge; it was no picnic. I firstly want to say that you are probably right about the numbers of people who would actually resist a tyrant, I think we can both agree that they would be surprisingly small; but who can definitavely say until it happens?

Next, about our fear being somewhat unfounded, and I am not using this a a parralel for guns but for a power takeover, I would look at Germany during the Nazi takeover. Most Germans did not really care about the Nazi party, but just about everyone loved Der Fuerher and trusted him with their lives. Unforunately for the Germans, they didn't fully realize exactly what they had gotten themselves into until after they happily sold their freedoms and guns to Hitler. The resulting attempts to regain Germany's dignity, and well-being, were characterized by internal sabatoge and attempts to kill Hitler himself. History has shown that the vast majority of Germans did nothing to stop the suicide run of their homeland, mostly out of fear, and for good reason. But even if they tried to salvage their country, what could they do? They had no guns with which to fight, and I think that is a small contributor to why they did nothing.

I also want to say in support of this arguement a little bit about the war in the East, in comparison to the war in the West. The war in the West Front was in a sense over much quicker than the war in the East Front. A major reason, and possibly the only reason, was the fact that we took prisoners and the Communists didn't; or when they did, they were starved, so the German army fought to the last yard to avoid the Soviets. The Germans knew this once the war started to swing in the Allies' favor, and even the top brass of the Wehrmacht tried to kill Hitler so they could negotiate with the Allies and avoid the Communists. This shows, I think, that when men are faced with certain defeat, and they have the means to resist, then they fight with their last breath. At least, this applies to free men and not slaves.

The Germans surrendered to us willingly in droves because they knew they would be well-treated and not have their rights as humans trampled. The opposite, of course, applies to the Communists. Anyway, back to my point. (sorry if I lectured you) Our fear, at least I believe, is not unfounded, because of what happened to the Germans. A power grab would happen slowly and inconspicuously. If someone tried to take away our basic human rights as listed in our Consitution, and we had the means with which to fight back, then you bet the small number who would be willing to die for their rights would fight to the last man just like the Germans in the East Front, because the German prisoners of the Russians were treated like dogs, and we would be too.Prussian725 (talk) 16:34, 28 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know exactly what you are saying. I am a bit ashamed myself for the large number of Americans who don't know squat about their government, their constitution, or why they should have guns. I think the third point reveals the first people who would turn in their guns because they have no clue why they have them, and once somebody comes along and takes them, they don't know the difference.

Well, I've enjoyed talking with you. I think we may have found some common ground in all this. It's really nice to be able to civilly debate with someone. I do not know what religion you ascribe to or if you do at all, but the Bible even says "Just as iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another." Thanks for the discussion, and hope to talk again soon.Prussian725 (talk) 03:37, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have Jack granted rollback rights to your account; the reason for this is that after a review of some of your contributions, I believe I can trust you to use rollback correctly by using it for its intended usage of reverting vandalism, and that you will not abuse it by reverting good-faith edits or to revert-war. For information on rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback and Wikipedia:Rollback feature. If you do not want rollback, just let me know, and I'll remove it. Good luck and thanks. Kralizec! (talk) 19:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings, I'm glad that you have reinserted the addendums. The anonymous IPs that are deleting them are not providing a rationale for deletion. To me, that says their edit is little more than vandalism. Some people do not understand that Wikipolicy supports pluralism, or including major points of view and letting the reader decide. While Guinness accepted cases like Izumi and White, scientific groups like the Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research do not. Thus, both are validating authorities and do not agree; the way to reconcile this disagreemt is to use footnotes. Since the media has generally deferred to Guinness since the 1950s, it should remain the standard unless there is a major shift away from it by the media. This field is still a lot cleaner than boxing, for example, where the world heavyweight title has a plethora of ABC, WBC, WBA, IBF, etc contenders.

Also, in sports like baseball, the World Almanac, for example, lists Ty Cobb as the 1910 batting champion, but notes that researchers now believe that was a mistake and that Nap Lajoie batted .383 and Ty Cobb .382 (instead of .385). But that was part of Cobb's 9 consecutive batting titles in a row. Even if the decision to award Cobb the title in 1910 was a mistake, it was the decision that was made then (just as Bush's 2000 recount victory over Al Gore is seen by some as wrong).

The point is, the list serves a dual purpose: its first goal is to provide the reader with the most accurate information available. However, a second goal is to provide the reader with the history of the subject. Thus, even if Izumi is discounted by some scholars, he should remain on the pages (at least until a scientific work is published that clearly demonstrates that his age was incorrect, as was done with Pierre Joubert). These two goals sometimes don't agree, and that's what footnotes and addendums are for. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a video game; not a current-events list. It must reflect not simply what is currently known, but the history of what was thought to be over time by the leading authorities. After all, the "oldest person" lists are for the most part set by chronology (dates), so history over time is one of the most important issues here. The two most important objectives are determining how long humans live (scientifically, based on evidence) and whether the maximum life span is increasing. But the history of the subject is a close third.Ryoung122 19:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to cull tags. I do a lot of cursory checking, and just so you know, the article (which I did read) seems a obsessive and lacks perspective. The third-party independent sources should be to groups other than those who are fully integrated into the Roswell cults. See what I'm saying? ScienceApologist (talk) 19:57, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi

Have you checked in the F1 discussion page to see what has and hasn't been done yet ?

I have reworked all of the article up to the "Awards" "records" section, as well as doing half the Refs, 1-44

thanks --Chaosdruid (talk) 20:51, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Having removed the article, it will be difficult for me to restore it without due process (i.e. a new GAN). However, I am quite happy to review the article for GAN myself once improvements are made and, if it is good enough, pass it then. Once you think it is ready, nominate it in the normal way and notify me. I'll be happy to do a full assessment then and pass it if it merits it. If you need any further assistance before nomination then let me know and I'd be happy to help.--Jackyd101 (talk) 21:03, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies !! I just read your note - sorry about that, I should have read it properly before writing to you --Chaosdruid (talk) 22:14, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just to note, the Martha Graham case was accepted based on a 1900 census listing of born in December 1844. Such a listing would not pass muster with today's rules (because it was outside the 20-year window of the birth event). Therefore, the case should be considered "disputed" in my opinion.Ryoung122 18:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings,

The above user has repeatedly made unconstructive edits (adding unsourced/uncited claims and those below age 110 to the super-c lists). This anon has shown no inclination to follow the rules or to listen, or even to give their side of the story.

Do you think you could give this user a warning, then a block, as I expect these edits to continue.

Ryoung122 00:37, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, she was reported on websites of Inter Club (she is a supporter) as a 109y.o. woman, and then on World's Oldest People with her birth date (today)... This afternoon she received wishes for her birthday (110) on tv. So she is alive for sure but I found nothing online about her bithday.--Pascar (talk) 20:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nasa plans to fly manned Orion flights to the ISS. And Nasa has published future planned flights. Therefore, despite these flights not yet appearing on Nasa's launch manifest, they should appear here, unless Nasa changes the program or cancels it. Canada Jack (talk) 19:02, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• To date, the ISS mission is scheduled until early 2011. Orion missions - to date no more than the desire of developers of Orion, but by no means official NASA plans for astronauts flights to ISS--SeNeKa (talk) 17:58, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Jack, I thought that with this recent Judyth Baker business, it's high time that the JFK conspiracies page finally got a section on the Garrison Affair. I don't think anything I've written will ignite any edit wars, as all the Garrison-related stuff is just cut and paste from other articles. I'm hoping what I've written will also provide a good substitute for the Baker page that's going to be deleted. Any ideas you have are quite welcome. Thanks, Joegoodfriend (talk) 19:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jack, thanks for bringing this to my attention, I have sourced the material on the Dal-Tex building recently added and then deleted from the JFK conspiracy page. It is also of note that the page on Jim Braden has been tagged for deletion. Hope you will help save it for those of us who seek more available info re: JFK assassination theories.DrippingGoss (talk) 17:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Jack. Would you mind commenting in Talk:Marathon world record progression about the Robert Fowler issue and whatever else you think should be addressed? Thanks! Location (talk) 20:49, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again, Jack. Hope you find this new comment buried in an old thread. I wanted to draw your attention to our previous discussion. Cheers! Location (talk) 03:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK: 21 june --Kasper2006 (talk) 15:04, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I would strongly urge you to revert your revert on the North American Union‎ article. Using the rollback tool in what is essentially a content dispute can result in the tool being stripped from you (or worse). If you disagree with another editor's changes, use the undo button and write you own edit summary explaining why. — Kralizec! (talk) 19:45, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Jack. I've cross-posted this to the Athletics Project, but I thought I'd let you know since you were very helpful in resolving some of the issues in Marathon world record progression. I've updated National records in the Marathon to resolve periodic conflicts regarding which "nations" should appear in the list. Please take a brief look there and offer your comments if you think some changes need to be made. Thanks! Location (talk) 01:58, 24 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there is certainly more evidence for Hitler's guilt than for Oswald's. Look e.g. to other wikipedias (de:Attentat auf John F. Kennedy, cs:Atentát na Johna Fitzgeralda Kennedyho, sk:Atentát na Johna Fitzgeralda Kennedyho etc.)... --94.113.9.226 (talk) 21:19, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The amount of evidence suggesting Oswald's guilt is, in a word, staggering. There are easily close to a hundred individual pieces of evidence, whether it is physical, witness or circumstantial, directly linking Oswald to the murder of Kennedy. What is truly amazing about the case is the efforts by many over the years to pretend this evidence does not exist. One may be able to explain away one or two pieces of evidence, it defies reason that so much evidence of culpability suggests anything other than one conclusion: his guilt. Canada Jack (talk) 21:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I would like to have your certainty. The life would be nicer and easier:-) --Rudoleska (talk) 09:21, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Most Europeans and Middle-Easterners are convinced Oswald was part of a conspiracy; in point of fact, the Italian media is very pro-conspiracy. I personally have never encountered anyone who believed Oswald acted completely alone. I was indeed surprised to discover how most editors here at Wikipedia support the WC report.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:18, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

BTW - do you know about this game? http://downloads.gamezone.com/demos/d11901.htm Try to play it, it's funny:) --Rudoleska (talk) 11:44, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rudoleska: Your response tells me you have not looked at the evidence which links Oswald to the crime. Because if you had, there would be no doubt in your mind that Oswald shot JFK. Otherwise, you'd have to explain away close to 100 separate pieces of evidence which link him to the crime. I used to think that, clearly, the evidence was there to suggest a conspiracy. Then I started to take another look at it, and realized the amount evidence for Oswald's guilt was, in a word, staggering.

The JFK case is an example of a great many people in denial that Oswald was responsible. One could accept, for the sake of argument, that several bits of evidence could have been planted. But the case for Oswald's guilt doesn't rest on, say, whether that's his fingerprint on the rifle, or whether he could have made it down the stairs in time. It rests on a) multiple witnesses who saw Oswald actually fire the rifle b) witnesses who saw him carry a package into the TSBD which was found at the sniper's nest c) with his fingerprints on the rifle and at the sniper's nest d) with his ownership of the rifle e) with the bullets found at the scene matched to the rifle f) with he being the only employee not accounted for during the assassination and after the assassination g) with him shooting dead an officer h) with multiple witnesses either seeing him shoot the officer or fleeing the scene i) with him telling provable lies to the police after his arrest j) with his leaving cash for his wife and children that morning, the list goes on and on. While any one or two pieces of evidence might be explained away or not proof of guilt, the totality of evidence suggests one thing and one thing only, to the reasonable person: Lee Harvey Oswald's guilt. But, as I said above, a great many people are in denial here. Even if we open the door to the possibility of a conspiracy, Oswald still had his fingerprints, quite literally, all over the scene of the crime. Canada Jack (talk) 21:49, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is not, that there is evidence found. I believe that Oswald was a part of the assasination plan. But I am sure, that the most important things are still hidden (as you may know Bush sr. decided to publish all documents in 2017 only). For example - you can see at the film that there were at least two shots, one from the front + one from the side, but not from the back, where Oswald stood. Other questions are, why was Oswald killed and why were many other people, who were allegedly involved, killed after the assasination... The explanation, that Oswald was homosexual communist is crazy for me (because communists were the last people on earth who wanted JFK's death at that time...). --Rudoleska (talk) 23:20, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jack, Oswald's prints were not found all over the scene of the crime. None were found on the window sill nor frame, which would have been there seeing as he had to have opened the window in order to fire at the motorcade. You will note by looking at photos taken of the TSBD before the shooting that the south-east corner window was the only window open on the sixth floor. The rifle only had his prints on the inside, none on the outside, which means that the rifle, which did belong to him, was either planted after the crime or he took more precious seconds to wipe it down after the shooting. As for the witnesses; well, their descriptions were all rather vague, if not contadictory. And the woman who described the assailant of Officer Tippit as having been "stocky in build with bushy hair"!!!!!!!!Oswald was slim with lank, thinning hair. And lastly, the time factor is always important in any killing which is why autopsies have to prove the exact time (if possible) of death. That way a court of law can decide whether or not the accused had the opportunity to commit the crime of which he is being charged. Oswald had 90 seconds to fire off at least three shots, wipe down the rifle, move aside the heavy boxes, walk quickly across the floor, down four flights of stairs, and then appear calm enough to convince his supervisor and Officer Baker of his non-involvement in the shooting.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:43, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For example - you can see at the film that there were at least two shots, one from the front + one from the side, but not from the back, where Oswald stood.

This is the sort of "denial" stuff I am talking about. Can you see the bullets in the film? No? Then how can you tell the shots are coming from the front and side? ALL the pathologists and autopsy personnel - including pro-conspiracy believer Cyril Wecht - agree two AND ONLY TWO bullets struck JFK and BOTH came from the rear. Without getting into the autopsy details, the bullet wounds PROVE that the bullets entered from the rear. As for JFK's movement to the backwards and to the left, this is an example of people who don't know what they are talking about coming to conclusions as if that movement indicates a bullet strike from the front right. Any movement associate with being struck by a bullet from that range would account for a grand total of about TWO INCHES of movement in another direction. That's it. So, even if we were to accept a strike then, THAT WOULD NOT ACCOUNT FOR JFK'S MOVEMENT. This is what a lot of the "denialists" don't get. And that is why the most accepted explanation for JFK's movement was a nuerological/muscular reaction to having his brain shattered by a bullet.

Other questions are, why was Oswald killed and why were many other people, who were allegedly involved, killed after the assasination...

Evidence, please, evidence. People died after the assaination, but, despite a Times (London) article from 1966 suggesting the odds of this happening were billions or more to one, and despite the late edition of that paper retracting the absurdly wrong numbers published, the odds of all those people dying within the several-year time span is roughly even. Besides, people dying years after the fact do not alter what happened on Nov 22 1963, and what happened on that day is consistent with Oswald acting alone.

Jack, Oswald's prints were not found all over the scene of the crime. None were found on the window sill nor frame, which would have been there seeing as he had to have opened the window in order to fire at the motorcade.

We;ve had this debate already, Jeanne. And you are still operating under the same fallacy - absence of evidence does not negate positive evidence. In other words, the lack of fingerprints there on the windowsill does not in any way negate the evidence which WAS there, which indicated Oswald's presence. Besides, as I have already repeatedly pointed out, MOST FINGERPRINTS ARE NOT VIABLE. If the prints were smudged for example, they were useless. It is not at all remarkable that prints are not found at every location where someone was supposed to be. Not only did several people identify him as being in the windowsill, his prints are on boxes in positions precisely what you'd expect if he used the boxes as a gun rest. Further, Oswald was the ONLY employee observed by fellow employees to be on the sixth floor that day, and still further OSWALD HIMSELF accidentally admitted to being on the floor when questioned.

And the woman who described the assailant of Officer Tippit as having been "stocky in build with bushy hair" There you go again, Jeanne. The identification of Oswald as the killer of Tippit does not rest on one eye-witness account. There were multiple other witnesses who either saw Oswald shoot Tippit or saw him flee the scene. But who do you quote? The one person whose testimony was fraudulently manipulated by author Mark Lane to make it appear as if she was describing someone clearly not Oswald. To see how much in denial and how desperate the pro-conspiracy theorists are, one should read up about Lane's treatment of Helen Louise Markham, from where the above quote comes from.

He had been interviewed by the Warren Commission and he revealed that she had described Tippit's assailant in this way. When the WC asked Markham if she had ever described the man in such a way, as Lane had described, she said she never had, and had never even met Lane. Turns out that was because Lane pretended to be Capt Fritz of the Dallas Police force. When the WC had Lane testify again, they asked Lane to hand over the tape he made of the conversation, but he refused. He finally relented, after posing bogus legal argument after bogus legal argument. And after reading the transcript thus produced, one can understand why.

Lane: I read that you told some of the reporters that he [Oswald] was short, stocky and had bushy hair.

Markham: No, no, I did not say this.

... Lane: And was he a little bit on the heavy side?

Markham: Not too heavy.

Lane: Not too heavy, but slightly heavy?

Markham: Uh, well, he was, no, he wasn't, didn';t look too heavy, uh, uh.

...

Lane: He was short and they asked if he was thin or heavy, and you said he was a little on the heavy side?

Markham: He was, uh, not too heavy. Uh, say around 100, maybe 150 [he was in fact 150 pounds at death]

Lane: Well, did you say he wasn't topo heavy, but he was a little heavy?

Markham: Uh, huh.

Lane: You did say that in the line-up?

Markham: I did identify him in the line-up.

Lane: Yeah, and did you tell the officers that the man who shot Tippit had bushy hair?

Markham: Uh, no, I did not.

Lane: But he did have bushy hair you said, just a little bushy?

Markham: Well, you wouldn't say it hand't been combed you know or anything.... he had probably been through a lot and it was kinda tore up a little.

What's amazing to me, Jeanne, is that you would 1) ignore the dozen or so OTHER witnesses who say Oswald shoot Tippit or flee the scene 2) you would focus on one witness who NEVER SAID WHAT MARK LANE CLAIMS SHE SAID and 3) who POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED OSWALD at the police line-up as the man who she saw shot Tippit!

Oswald had 90 seconds to fire off at least three shots, wipe down the rifle, move aside the heavy boxes, walk quickly across the floor, down four flights of stairs, and then appear calm enough to convince his supervisor and Officer Baker of his non-involvement in the shooting.

A feat which Earl Warren himself matched, Jeanne. And numerous others. And, since the building was sealed soon afterwards and no one else was seen descending the steps from the perch where we all agree SOMEONE fired shots (if not Oswald), well then, prey tell, how did this person vanish into thin air since each and every one of the other TSBD employees was seen and accounted for during the assassination?

This is what I mean about "denial," the curious ability to see a brown leaf on the ground in an otherwise verdant forest, and thus declare the forest not to be green. Canada Jack (talk) 20:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Canada Jack, there is clearly a vigorous debate as to the number of potential shooters/shots that day that I would like to avoid taking part in. But, there seems to be an incorrect/false sentence in the JFK Assassination article summary that appears to need correcting/updating.

Wikipedia's JFK Assassination article, Paragraph 4, sentence 2 states "The Committee was not able to identify any individuals or groups involved with the possible conspiracy." This sentence appears to be false, as the HSCA specifically identified Carlos Marcello and Santos Trafficante as having the means, motive, and opportunity to assassinate JFK, stating "The committee found that Trafficante, like Marcello, had the motive, means, and opportunity to assassinate President Kennedy." (Source:^[1])

These HSCA findings were supported by alleged confessions from Marcello in 1985 to an FBI informant and Trafficante in 1987 to his attorney, Frank Ragano. (Sources: ^{[2] [3] [4] [5]} )

It seems that paragraph 4, sentence 2 should be updated to "The Committee found that Carlos Marcello and Santos Trafficante had the means, motive, and opportunity to assassinate president Kennedy." (Source:^[6])

If you do not dispute these facts, are you able to update the JFK Assassination page or should I contact another Wikipedia member? Thanks for your help/contributions. Nopoliticsatthetable (talk) 18:47, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nopolitcs: Funny, I just posted a response, so check it out. Basically, though the committee did identify several who would have had the means motive etc , it failed to find any evidence that these people were actually involved in the assassination. So there is no need to change the text. Canada Jack (talk) 18:58, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking time to comment on the talk page. As I've indicated, I haven't yet had the time to look at the article in detail. Has there been BLP discussions in the past on this article? --Ronz (talk) 16:10, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I am aware - you can see the page discussions go back a few years. I've checked out Mr. Lewis' new website (fitforever.com) and it might be relevant to mention that somewhere in passing. Canada Jack (talk) 16:23, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There was a request for comment made at WikiProject:Human Spaceflight, on the inclusion of a table containing the wake up calls. If you get a minute and could comment on what you think, that would be great. Thanks!--NavyBlue84 14:33, 21 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Jack, sorry about the photo. I never really had an editor here in the Wikipedia who was interested in showing me how things work (well, one, after a year, who isn't interested really in biographies, mainly hard sciences-- Spinning Spark is a very kind person, for all that, he did help when I hadn't a clue) and I didn't even know how email worked until just a handful of years ago. I'm sorry about the photo of The Cramps. When I go out hunting for photos for the Wikipedia, if I see any CC-BY-SA images there, and we don't have a photo, or the newer one looks clearer, I pick them up too, and if there's space or relevance in the article, try to work things out chronologically. Since generally people only stop by my talk page to yell at me, I'm hoping you didn't mind the replacement. BTW, I did look for a decent one of Lux Interior -- the b/w photo of Poison Ivy came from the same photographer in Japan. (I think I must have been a used car salesman in my last life!) If you like, I just uploaded a whole mess of garage rock, New wave, and other bands to Wikimedia Commons, same username. Have a look if you like. I think there are still some not placed. Sorry I removed your photo. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 09:10, 25 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to discuss your removal in the discussion section of the article. Now you've removed the material twice. How about discussion on the article's talk page before removal?Ghostofnemo (talk) 03:16, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(In response to the note you left on my talk page) The proper place for this discussion is on the article discussion page at John F. Kennedy Assassination. You removed the Mauser information from the Carcano section. It is historical fact supported by references, that the weapon was first identified as a 7.65 Mauser. Just because some editors express a preference doesn't mean they are right. But, in an effort to be agreeable and cooperative, although I disagreed, I moved it to the Conspiracy section of the article. It was removed again, without any discussion. So let's discuss this on the discussion page, shall we? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghostofnemo (talk • contribs) 03:43, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hey there Canada Jack, thank you for your contributions! I am a bot alerting you that Non-free files are not allowed in the user or talk-space. I removed some files that I found on User:Canada Jack. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your user-space drafts or your talk page.

• See a log of files removed today here.

• Shut off the bot here.

• Report errors here.

Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 00:03, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've nominated Fox's article at FAC here, and a user has requested an OTRS ticket be sent verifying that you are the photographer for the picture of Fox running through Toronto that serves as the article's lead. I would be most appreciative if you would do this, both to satisfy the requesting editor and to help this article reach the status it deserves. Cheers! Resolute 20:59, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I indeed took the photograph. If there is any other form of verification required, let me know. Canada Jack (talk) 13:41, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's good enough for me, but the editor in question is always concerned about appearances when it comes to older images. He'd appreciate it if you sent the OTRS team an email verifying it is your photograph. They would create a ticket logging it as such, which would satisfy the user. Great photo, btw. It's always cool when you can get a picture of historical moments. Thanks, Resolute 13:48, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I took a look and I have absolutely no idea how to send an e-mail to these guys, where it goes, etc. Please advise. Canada Jack (talk) 17:01, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Wow... they certainly did make things a lot more confusing since the last time I sent a message to OTRS. The email address you want is "permissions-commons AT wikimedia DOT org" (replacng the At and DOT, of course) And you need only to confirm in the email that File:TerryFoxToronto19800712.JPG is your photo and that you have released it into the public domain. I suspect it will help them if you reference the Terry Fox FAC so as to give them context as to why the request is coming in.

From my POV, your on-wiki declaration should be enough, but I appreciate your going to this trouble to help satisfy the concerns of another editor. Cheers! Resolute 17:23, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Canada Jack (talk) 18:00, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome, thanks! Resolute 18:11, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. Please stop the disruption, otherwise you may be blocked from editing.

I have reported this latest action.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 19:46, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Calmer Waters 19:08, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply] 

First, I suggest you look at the section ahead of this one. Next, look WP:NOTAFORUM and the tag on the talkpage. Discussing the general downhill slide of the magazine is not article improvement. If you don't understand that link, take a look [[Template:Uw-chat1]].

It is if the section is in the main body of the article. Canada Jack (talk) 19:50, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is no section on "slide". And while Viviano is cited in the article, it is in reference to the Controversy section. BTW, next you post on someone's talkpage, please follow the norm do it at the bottom of the page. The entire section you reverted to does not address article improvement which is the reason for its talkpage. You are again now in violation of 3RR. ----moreno oso (talk) 20:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just for the record, for anyone else dealing with Morenooso, my short exchange with him revealed troubling behavior from someone who has a relatively robust edit history. For one, his approach is schoolmarmy. Instead of engaging with me, he first put a template on the discussion page in question, then he started to omit material. I re-inserted said material saying it falls within the range of what the discussion page should be. Instead of engaging, he removed the material again, pointing to the various policies he saw as relevant. I patiently told him that I understood his point but in my opinion the material fell under the purvue of what a discussion page should be.

And, he is overly sensitive. When I pointed out to him that I am an experienced editor, he took that as some sort of personal attack. And after politely explaining how in my view the discussion he removed should stay if there is a good faith disagreement between editors, as a default, he described me as being a "pompous editor" for suggesting I was an experienced editor, even though that was in response to his schoomarmy approach better suited towards a novice editor NOT as a comment on HIS experience. Then ignoring my point about good faith agreements, he declared me wrong and perhaps incapable of understanding the "notaforum" rule, then he told me to "buzz off." And he closed the discussion. Someone responded to THAT, and I briefly responded to that poster, only to have THAT deleted.

I've been here some four years and I've never experienced this sort of condescending and childish conduct from an established editor. Anyone else who has complaints about his conduct can feel free to cite my experience.

Here is what I posted on his page and the exchange:

You've reverted the discussion on Mad magazine's "peak" four times now. I've expressed the view that the material is relevant, so you are in violation of the 3R rule. The discussion is relevant to the material on the page. Why? If the original poster's comment was to stand, the section could be removed. I've justified its inclusion. It seems rather odd that I have to justify the inclusion of comments on the discussion page on THIS page for material which justifies the inclusion of material on THAT page!

Obviously, you have a different opinion on whether the material is discussing improvements to the page. I am a long-time editor here, and I believe the material should stay. You've not estbalished the material is non-relevant, therefore the material should stay. Canada Jack (talk) 19:47, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Nope. I am following Wikipedia policy and my reverts have been all in good faith. In fact, I granted you that courtesy when I established the WP:NOTAFORUM tag. I could have reverted immediatedly but decided it could wait until my next visit. However, you chose to ignore the tag and continued random conversation. And, while we are both long time editors, I will point to you to that I have three time as many edits. BTW, you are approaching 3RR on the article which is why I visited your talkpage. Please don't try to revert or turn the conversatiion. ----moreno oso (talk) 19:56, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

And I recognize that your actions, though misguided in my view, are in good faith. As I said, we have a difference of opinion. There is no "fact" established that the discussion in question must go, your claims notwithstanding. Your opinion is it should go, mine is it can stay. Therefore the default should be to retain the material in this sort of good-faith difference of opinion we are having. The discussion is relevant to improving the page as if the poster's remarks were to stand, the quote should be removed. As, the poster suggests, though true, the quote is trivially true. I suggest the opposite, the quote is non-trivially true, citing my own experience. The quote therefore deserves to stay.

If I was engaged in a debate on when Mad peaked, you'd be justified in removing the material. But though mentioned in passing, the discussion is not, per se, on when the peak happened, it is on whether a quote regarding the peak is trivial or non-trivial.

As for the bigger issue here, the issue here is not who has more edits - a rather amazingly pompous remark to make - the issue is whether one editor can assume the right to remove material from a discussion page when another editor maintains the material is relevant to the article in question. In other words, unlike adding contentious material to a main page which has not been arrived through via consensus, you are declaring the discussion I am having as outside the bounds of a discussion page and removing it with NO discussion.

I've been in far more contentious debates on discussion pages, some of which should properly be removed as per the guidelines you cite. And much discussion has been removed as it strays into debate on the topic in question rather than on ways to improve the page, the primary function of the discussion page.

In the case of a main page, when there is good faith disagreement over inclusion of material, the material should be debated on the discussion page. However, as long as an experienced editor agrees material on a DISCUSSION page should remain unless it is so clearly outside the bounds of the article in question, the default should be to leave the material there.

So, in good faith, I will remove the material in question if you can convince me that it falls outside the bounds I describe above. Canada Jack (talk) 21:45, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Two words (but they will come at the end because you're wrong). You're the pompous editor who brought up he's been around here a long time. If you don't get the notaforum discussion then you're really missing it. Now for the two words: buzz off.

Canada Jack (talk) 18:02, 30 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not attack other editors, as you did here: Talk:Mad (magazine)‎. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. --moreno oso (talk) 03:30, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

awesome, thanks for the message. There's a few things being discussed in this direction Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Human spaceflight. :) Mlm42 (talk) 23:13, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! As an member editor of one or more of the Spaceflight, Human spaceflight, Unmanned spaceflight, Timeline of spaceflight or Space colonisation WikiProjects, I'd like to draw to your attention a proposal I have made with regards to the future of the spaceflight-related portals, which can be found at Portal talk:Spaceflight#Portal merge. I'd very much appreciate any suggestions or feedback you'd be able to offer! Many thanks,

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Human spaceflight at 08:40, 9 November 2010 (UTC).[reply]

Hello there! As part of an effort to determine how many active editors are present in the spaceflight-related WikiProjects, I have made some changes to the list of members of WikiProject Human spaceflight. If you still consider yourself to be an active editor in this project, I would be grateful if you would please edit the list so that your name is not struck out - thus a clearer idea of the critical mass of editors can be determined. Many thanks in advance!

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Human spaceflight at 19:06, 17 November 2010 (UTC).[reply]

Hello there! As you may or may not be aware, a recent discussion on the future of the Space-related WikiProjects has concluded, leading to the abolition of WP:SPACE and leading to a major reorganisation of WP:SPACEFLIGHT. It would be much appreciated if you would like to participate in the various ongoing discussions at the reorganisation page and the WikiProject Spaceflight talk page. If you are a member of one of WP:SPACEFLIGHT's child projects but not WP:SPACEFLIGHT itself, it would also be very useful if you could please add your name to the member list here. Many thanks!

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Spaceflight at 00:05, 6 December 2010 (UTC).[reply]

The Downlink
Your source for news on WikiProject Spaceflight	Issue 0, December 2010
Welcome to The Downlink · Reorganisation of Space WikiProjects · User Activity Checks Welcome to The Downlink Welcome to The Downlink, a new monthly newsletter intended to inform members of WikiProject Spaceflight about the latest developments in the project and its articles. Future issues will contain information on issues under discussion, newly featured content, and articles written by members of the project to appear in the newsletter. All members of WikiProject Spaceflight are invited to contribute any content that they would like to see in the newsletter. If you were not aware of being a member of WikiProject Spaceflight, membership of the former Human spaceflight, Unmanned spaceflight, Timeline of spaceflight and Space colonization WikiProjects was merged into WikiProject spaceflight during the reorganisation of the spaceflight projects, for more details, please see below. Reorganisation of Space WikiProjects The ongoing discussion of the future of Space WikiProjects has been making progress. WikiProject Space was abolished on 5 December 2010, with the Spaceflight, Astronomy and Solar System projects becoming independent of each other. On the same day, an assessment banner, {{WikiProject Spaceflight}} was created for WikiProject Spaceflight to replace the generic space one which had been used previously. On 9 December, WikiProject Space Colonization was abolished, with its tasks being subsumed into WikiProject Spaceflight. On 12 December, the Human spaceflight and Unmanned spaceflight WikiProjects became task forces of WikiProject Spaceflight, whilst WikiProject Timeline of spaceflight became a working group. A number of issues are still under discussion: Introducing better defined assessment criteria and an A-class review process Setting clearer importance criteria for assessing articles Establishing a joint task force with the Astronomy and Solar System projects to cover space telescopes and planetary probes Defining the roles of projects, taskforces and working groups, and processes for establishing new ones Improving the profile and activity of the project Much of the current discussion is taking place on the WikiProject Spaceflight talk page, however there is still some discussion on the original proposal page. User Activity Checks A series of checks are underway to establish the numbers of users who are still active within WikiProject Spaceflight, its task forces and working group. All usernames on the members lists were struck out, and members were asked to unstrike their own names if they were still an active member of the project. If you wish to do so, and have not already, please unstrike your name from the master list, plus the lists on any applicable task forces or working groups Published by WikiProject Spaceflight, if you have any content you wish to include in future newsletters, please contribute

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Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Spaceflight at 16:06, 16 December 2010 (UTC).[reply]

The Downlink
Your source for news on WikiProject Spaceflight	Issue 1, January 2011
Welcome to The Downlink · Project News · News from Orbit · Article News · Space Stations and the Push for Featured Topics · Salyut 2 Welcome to The Downlink Welcome to the first full issue of The Downlink, a new monthly newsletter intended to inform members of WikiProject Spaceflight about the latest developments in the project and its articles. Below you will find information about happenings within the project, our recognised content, spaceflight in the news and events needing to be covered in articles. You will also find an editorial about the first concerted effort to develop featured topics related to spaceflight, and an article in need of your help and improvements. Project News will provide details of discussions about and changes in the organisation and structure of the project, newly recognised content, and changes in membership. News from Orbit will summarise spaceflight news and upcoming events, and list suggestions for articles in need of updating as a result. Article News will give details of requests for assistance within articles, and discussions regarding content. All members of WikiProject Spaceflight are invited to contribute any content that they would like to see in the newsletter, and we would particularly welcome the submission of editorials, or an article about an area of spaceflight which you are working on, or particularly interested in. Please see The Downlink page for more details. Project News A new working group has been formed. The space stations working group is expected to work towards creating Featured topics related to space stations. It currently has three members. Discussion within the project is still dominated by the reorganisation proposals. A discussion over the formation and roles of working groups and task forces has led to some clarification regarding working groups, however the roles of the task forces remain vague, and several proposals to abolish them have surfaced. The Human Spaceflight to-do list has been merged into the main project to-do list, with the combined list currently located on the Tasks page of the Spaceflight portal. A discussion regarding opening relations with the Aerospace biography task force of Wikipedia:WikiProject Aviation was held, but no conclusions were reached. The Article Alerts bot has resumed operation, and a problem with the information the bot had been delivering was discussed and resolved. New assessment criteria for importance and quality have been implemented, and refinements continue to be made to the importance scale. The scope of the project was redefined to exclude astronomical objects explicitly. Although A-class criteria have been defined, a review process is yet to be discussed or implemented. Colds7ream conducted an analysis of open tasks related to the reorganisation which four major issues remain unresolved: Discussion concerning the existence and roles of task forces within the project; recruitment of new editors; updating guidelines and whether the project or the task forces should be responsible for maintaining them; and the continued existence of the Human spaceflight portal six weeks after consensus was reached to abolish it. Discussion about the structure of the project is ongoing, with several proposals currently on the table. One proposal calls for the abolition of task forces in favour of increased emphasis on working groups, whilst another calls for the task forces to become a list of topics. The idea of a formal collaboration system has been suggested, however opposition has been raised. One of the main open tasks at the moment is replacing the older {{WikiProject Space}} and {{WikiProject Human spaceflight}} banners with the new {{WikiProject Spaceflight}} banner. Articles which need to be retagged are currently listed in Category:WikiProject Spaceflight articles using deprecated project tags. ChiZeroOne is doing a very good job replacing them, but as of the morning of 31 December, there are still 1,424 left to be converted. Additionally, the implementation of a new B-class checklist built into the template has necessitated the reassessment of former B-class articles, which the template has automatically classified as C-class. News from Orbit On 3 December, USA-212, the first X-37B, landed at Vandenberg Air Force Base after a successful mission. On 5 December Proton-M with a Blok DM-03 upper stage failed to place three Glonass-M satellites into orbit, the first of three failures in less than forty eight hours. The NanoSail-D2 spacecraft was supposed to have been ejected from FASTSAT in the early hours of the next morning, however it does not appear to have separated. Finally the Akatsuki spacecraft failed to enter orbit around Venus in the evening of 6 December. The Proton launch was the maiden flight of the Blok DM-03, which does not currently have an article. On 8 December the Dragon C1 demonstration mission was conducted, with the SpaceX Dragon making a little under two orbits of the Earth on its maiden flight, before landing in the Pacific Ocean to complete a successful mission. The Falcon 9 rocket which launched the Dragon spacecraft also deployed eight CubeSats: SMDC-ONE 1, QbX-1, QbX-2, Perseus 000, Perseus 001, Perseus 002, Perseus 003 and Mayflower. The CubeSats do not currently have articles. On 15 December, a Soyuz-FG launched Soyuz TMA-20 to the International Space Station, carrying three members of the Expedition 26 crew. It docked two days later. The Soyuz TMA-20 article is currently short, and could use improvements to bring it up to the same level as articles for US manned spaceflights. On 17 December, a Long March 3A launched Compass-IGSO2. There is currently no article for this satellite. 17 December saw Intelsat regain control of the Galaxy 15 satellite, which had been out of control since a malfunction in April. The Galaxy 15 article is in need of serious cleanup and a good copyedit. On 25 December a GSLV Mk.I failed to place GSAT-5P into orbit. A Proton-M with a Briz-M upper stage successfully launched KA-SAT on 26 December. Barring any suborbital launches at the end of the month which have not yet been announced (a NASA Black Brant was scheduled for December but does not appear to have flown), 2010 in spaceflight concluded on 29 December when an Ariane 5ECA launched the Hispasat-1E and Koreasat 6 spacecraft. These do not currently have articles. Four launches are currently scheduled to occur in January 2011. A Delta IV Heavy is expected to launch NRO L-49 on 17 January. The satellite is expected to be an Improved Crystal electro-optical imaging spacecraft. Two launches are planned for 20 January, with Kounotori 2, the second H-II Transfer Vehicle, being launched by an H-IIB, and the Zenit-3F making its maiden flight to deploy Elektro-L No.1, the first Russian geostationary weather satellite to be launched since 1994. On 28 January Progress M-09M will be launched by a Soyuz-U. 28 January will also be the twenty-fifth anniversary of the loss of the Space Shuttle Challenger on mission STS-51-L. Article News It was requested that the article Walter Haeussermann be expanded. Haeussermann, a member of the von Braun rocket group, died on 8 December. Although the article has been updated following his death, a user requested that more information about the engineer be added. Another user requested that the articles Commercial Space Launch Act and Launch Services Purchase Act be created, to cover laws of the United States concerning spaceflight. Articles related to methods of taking-off and landing were discussed. The term VTVL currently has an article whilst VTHL and HTHL do not. It was suggested that the existing article should be merged, and each term be covered by the article for the equivalent aviation term, however some distinction between use in the fields of aviation and spaceflight should remain. Concern was raised that a large scale deletion request could cause many images to be lost from articles, help was requested to investigate whether any of the images were not subject to copyright, or if they were then whether they could be uploaded to the English Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. Concerns were raised about a large amount of content in the newly-created article deorbit of Mir duplicating existing content in existing Good Article Progress M1-5. A proposal to merge deorbit of Mir into Progress M1-5 was made, however objections were raised, and discussion has since stalled without reaching a consensus. It has also been requested that the article Mir be copyedited. The existence of separate categories for "spaceflight" and "space exploration" has been questioned, with a suggestion that some of the exploration categories, including Category:Space exploration iteslf, should be merged into their spaceflight counterparts. Missile Range Instrumentation Ship is currently listed at requested moves, with a proposal to rename it tracking ship. The only open good article nomination is of the book Mission: Earth, Voyage to the Home Planet, which is currently awaiting review. Editorial – Space Stations and the Push for Featured Topics There has recently been much talk about trying to increase the activity of the project. To this end, a major reorganisation effort has been undertaken, which has seen the space WikiProjects separated into the Astronomy, Solar System and Spaceflight groups, with WikiProject Space being abolished. We have also seen the child projects of WikiProject Spaceflight being abolished, with Timeline of Spaceflight becoming a working group, and the Unmanned and Human Spaceflight projects becoming task forces for now, with some suggestions that they should be abolished outright. The problem with the previous structure was that there were too many different groups of editors, and nobody was sure which projects were supposed to be doing what. Now there is only one project, this is somewhat clearer, but spaceflight is still a huge topic. Another way to improve the activity of the project is to attract more editors. Spaceflight is a topic which many people have at least a very casual interest in, and therefore it is strange that there are only about four or five people regularly participating in discussions on the project talk page. Evidently action is needed to raise the profile of the project. One way in which the project's profile can be raised is to have a major success associated with it. The creation of a featured topic could be one such success, and would also be hugely beneficial to articles in the area that it relates to. Space Stations are one of the most high-profile and notable areas of spaceflight, and are therefore a logical choice to spearhead such an initiative. To this end, in late December a working group was established to concentrate and coordinate efforts to establish featured topics related to space stations. An initial proposal calls for topics on Skylab, Salyut, Mir and the International Space Station, as well as one on space stations in general. There is currently an effort to get Mir promoted to Good Article status; the article currently requires a copyedit, after which it will be sent for peer review and then to GAN. This is by no means a short-term project. There are many articles, particularly for the larger space stations such as the ISS and Mir, which are currently nowhere near becoming recognised content. Skylab is the smallest of the proposed featured topics, but it still requires that three C-class articles, two Start-class articles and a redirect all reach at least Good Article status, with at least three becoming Featured Articles. The ISS topic is so large that it may have to be subdivided. I don't expect that we will have any featured topics by the end of the year, but I believe that a Good Topic, which requires all articles reach at least GA status, but does not require any featured articles, may be possible. I also believe that several articles on the subject can easily be improved to Good Article status, and some articles may be at featured level by the end of the year. In the long term, having featured topics will benefit the project and its content. Selected Article – Salyut 2 Salyut 2 was an early space station, launched in 1973 as part of the Salyut and Almaz programmes. It malfunctioned two days after launch, and consequently was never visited by a manned Soyuz mission. The Salyut 2 article describes the station: “ Salyut 2 (OPS-1)(Russian: Салют-2; English: Salute 2) was launched April 4, 1973. It was not really a part of the same program as the other Salyut space stations, instead being the highly classified prototype military space station Almaz. It was given the designation Salyut 2 to conceal its true nature. Despite its successful launch, within two days the as-yet-unmanned Salyut 2 began losing pressure and its flight control failed; the cause of the failure was likely due to shrapnel piercing the station when the discarded Proton rocket upper stage that had placed it in orbit later exploded nearby. On April 11, 1973, 11 days after launch, an unexplainable accident caused the two large solar panels to be torn loose from the space station cutting off all power to the space station. Salyut 2 re-entered on May 28, 1973. ” The article is currently assessed as start class, and is in need of attention. It consists of the above paragraph, along with a list of specifications and an infobox. The article needs to be rewritten in a more encyclopaedic style, and with more information about the space station. It has not yet been determined whether Salyut 2 would have to be included in a featured topic about the Salyut programme, or whether since it was never manned it is less integral to the topic, however if its inclusion were necessary then in its current form it would be a major impediment to this. Downlink readers are encouraged to improve this article, with a view to getting it to B-class and possibly a viable Good Article candidate by the end of the month. Published by WikiProject Spaceflight, if you have any content you wish to include in future newsletters, please contribute

You have recieved this newsletter because you are currently listed as a member of WikiProject Spaceflight, or because you are not a member but have requested it. If you do not wish to receive future issues, please add your name to the opt-out list.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Spaceflight at 14:42, 1 January 2011 (UTC).[reply]

The Downlink
Your source for news on WikiProject Spaceflight	Issue 2, February 2011
Project News · News from Orbit · Article News · The Charts · Yuri Gagarin Project News A report on popular pages from December 2010 revealed surprising trends in readers' interests. Boeing X-37 was the most popular article within the project's scope, with SpaceX Dragon in second with Global Positioning System in third place. The top seven articles were all assessed as C-class, with the remainder of the top ten being Good Articles. It was noted with some concern that moon landing conspiracy theories was more popular than moon landing. A discussion regarding whether missiles warranted inclusion within the project scope was conducted, and resulted in the continued inclusion of missiles. The last remaining articles tagged with the banner of the former Human Spaceflight WikiProject were re-tagged with the WikiProject Spaceflight banner. The last banner was removed on 8 January, and the template has since been deleted. The project is thankful to ChiZeroOne for his work in this field. Concerns were raised that the new article reporting system was not working correctly, however it was noted that there is sometimes a delay before articles appear on the list. Discussion regarding the existence of the separate spaceflight and space exploration category structures led to a mass CfD being filed on 10 January to abolish the space exploration categories, merging them into their counterparts in the spaceflight category structure. This was successful, and the exploration categories have been removed. Several other categorisation issues remain unresolved. A proposal was made to standardise some of the infoboxes used by the project, the future of Template:Infobox spacecraft (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) was discussed, and design work began on a replacement. Template:Rocket specifications-all (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) was nominated for deletion and subsequently kept due to extant substitutions, however it was noted that the template had been deprecated by WikiProject Rocketry. Concerns were also raised that the existing infoboxes were not well-equipped to handle spacecraft which operated in more than one orbit, or whose orbits changed over the course of their missions (which in practise is most of them). Five members of the project gave interviews for the Wikipedia Signpost, and a report on the project, authored by SMasters (talk · contribs), is expected to be published in the 7 February edition of the Signpost. It is hoped that this will raise interest in and awareness of the project. News from orbit Four orbital launches were conducted in January, beginning on 20 January with the launch of Elektro-L No.1 on the first Zenit-3F rocket. This was followed later the same day by the launch of a Delta IV Heavy with the USA-224 reconnaissance satellite. The articles for USA-224 and the Zenit-3F rocket could use some expansion, whilst the Elektro-L No.1 satellite needs its own article. On 22 January, an H-IIB launched the second H-II Transfer Vehicle, Kounotori 2, to resupply the International Space Station. It arrived at the station on 27 January. Less than a day after its arrival, another cargo mission was launched to the station; Progress M-09M departed Baikonur early in the morning of 28 January, docking on 30 January. In addition to payloads to resupply the station, the Progress spacecraft is carrying a small subsatellite, Kedr, which will be deployed in February. Kedr does not currently have an article. Progress M-08M departed on 24 January to make the Pirs module available for Progress M-09M, and has since reentered the atmosphere. Its article needs to be updated to reflect the successful completion of its mission. The NanoSail-D2 satellite, which failed to deploy from FASTSAT in December, unexpectedly separated from its parent craft and began operations on 18 January, with its solar sail deploying on 21 January. Nine orbital launches are scheduled to occur in February, beginning with the launch of the first Geo-IK-2 satellite; Geo-IK-2 No.11, atop a Rokot/Briz-KM, on the first day of the month. Articles need to be written for the Geo-IK-2 series of satellites, as well as for Geo-IK-2 No.11 itself, and the Briz-KM upper stage that will be used to insert it into orbit. A Minotaur I rocket will launch NRO L-66, a classified payload for the US National Reconnaissance Office, on 5 February. The payload has not yet been identified, however once more details are known, it will need an article. Iran is expected to launch the Rasad 1 and Fajr 1 satellites in February, with 14 February the reported launch date. The satellites will fly aboard a single rocket; either the first Simorgh or the third Safir. Once this launch occurs, the satellites will need articles, and the article on their carrier rocket will require updating. The second Automated Transfer Vehicle, Johannes Kepler, is scheduled to launch on 15 February to resupply the ISS. Docking is expected to occur on 23 February. 23 February will also see the much-delayed launch of Glory atop a Taurus-XL 3110 rocket. This will be the first Taurus launch since the launch failure in early 2009 which resulted in the loss of the Orbiting Carbon Observatory. In addition to Glory, three CubeSats will be deployed; KySat-1, Hermes and Explorer-1 [PRIME]. KySat and Hermes require articles, whilst the article on Explorer-1 [PRIME] needs to be updated. On 24 February, a Soyuz-2.1b/Fregat rocket will launch the first Glonass-K1 satellite; Glonass-K1 No.11. Articles are needed for the series of spacecraft, as well as for the specific satellite being launched. It is likely that a Kosmos designation will be given to the payload when it reaches orbit. In the evening of 24 February, Space Shuttle Discovery will begin its final mission, STS-133, carrying the Permanent Multipurpose Module, a conversion of the Leonardo MPLM, to the ISS. Other payloads include an ExPRESS Logistics Carrier, and the Robonaut2 experimental robot. The first manned mission of 2011, Discovery's six-man crew will transfer equipment to the station, and two EVAs will be performed. The launch has already been scrubbed five times, before Discovery was rolled back to the Vehicle Assembly Building to inspect and repair cracks on its External Tank. At some point in February, a Long March 3B rocket is expected to launch two navigation satellites; Compass-M2 and Compass-M3, as part of the Compass navigation system. The date of this launch is currently unknown. Both satellites will require articles once more information is available. A PSLV launch, carrying the Resourcesat-2, X-Sat and YouthSat spacecraft, is expected to launch from the Satish Dhawan Space Centre towards the end of the month, probably between 20 and 23 February. Stop press: The Rokot launch was conducted at 14:00 UTC on 1 February, and at the time of writing it appears to have ended in failure, due to a suspected upper stage malfunction. The spacecraft is in orbit, it is not clear at the time of writing whether it will be salvageable. Article news Reaction Engines Skylon is currently undergoing peer review, its discussion page can be found at Wikipedia:Peer review/Reaction Engines Skylon/archive1. A user requested feedback on major changes which had been made to the article, however at the time of writing no responses have been offered. Following up on the issues covered in the last issue, the requested move of Missile Range Instrumentation Ship to Tracking ship was successful, with the article being renamed. The discussion concerning types of launch and landing resulted in a proposal to merge VTVL into VTOL, however this has been met with some opposition. Several other options have been suggested on Talk:VTVL. The large scale deletion of mis-tagged Soviet images on Commons went ahead, with most of the useful ones having already been backed-up locally under fair use criteria. Discussion was held regarding the naming of spaceflight-related articles. Concerns were raised regarding inconsistency in article titles and disambiguators. A project guideline was adopted to standardise titles, with the parenthesised disambiguators "(satellite)" and "(spacecraft)" being adopted as standards for spacecraft, and the exclusion of manufacturers' names from article titles was recommended. Issues regarding Japanese spacecraft with two names, the correct names for early Apollo missions, and dealing with acronyms and abbreviated names remain unresolved. A large number of articles were moved to conform to the standard disambiguation pattern. In addition, several Requested Moves were debated. A proposal to move SpaceX Dragon to Dragon (spacecraft), which began prior to the adoption of the standardised disambiguators, was successful. Atmospheric reentry was subject to two requested moves, firstly one which would have seen it renamed spacecraft atmospheric reentry, which was unsuccessful, however a second proposal shortly afterwards saw it moved to atmospheric entry. A proposal currently under discussion could see Lunar rover (Apollo) renamed Lunar Roving Vehicle Questions surrounding the transliteration of Russian names resurfaced, with a proposal to rename Vladimir Chelomey to Vladimir Chelomei being closed with no consensus, and a proposal to rename Yury Usachov to Yuri Usachev ongoing. Several long-standing merger proposals were closed. A proposal to merge Venera 15 and Venera 16 into Venera 15 and 16 was closed as no consensus, with the combined page being moved to Venera 4V-2 to reduce the overlap in the articles' scopes. Returnable satellite was merged into Fanhui Shi Weixing. Experimental Assembly of Structures in EVA and Assembly Concept for Construction of Erectable Space Structures was nominated for Good Article reassessment due to concerns over the article's quality. Doubts were also expressed over the thoroughness of the original review conducted upon its nomination for GA status. It was also suggested that the article's title may not be the most common name for the experiment, and that it might be necessary to move the page. Concerns were also raised regarding whether Space Interferometry Mission was up-to-date, however these are being addressed. Mission: Earth, Voyage to the Home Planet looks likely to be promoted to GA status. Help was requested for adding citations to List of Mir spacewalks. A request was made that STS-88 be reviewed against the B class criteria, and suggestions for improvements made. Another user requested improvements to the article Yuri Gagarin, with a view to having the article promoted to featured status in time for the fiftieth anniversary of his Vostok 1 mission. As a result of this request, Yuri Gagarin is this month's selected article. Questions were raised as to whether an article or category should be created to cover derelict satellites. The categorisation of spacecraft by the type of rocket used to place them into orbit was also suggested. In another categorisation issue, it was questioned whether Space law should fall under space or spaceflight. Stop press: Mission: Earth, Voyage to the Home Planet has now been promoted to GA status. The Charts There is no editorial this month as no content was submitted for one. Instead, we present the "top ten" most popular articles within the project, based on the number of page views in January. Space Shuttle Challenger disaster was the most popular article of the last month, up fourteen places from 15th in December. Space Shuttle Challenger was the highest climber in the top 40, up 42 places from 50th. December's most popular article. Boeing X-37, dropped 57 places to 58th. On a happier note further down the chart, moon landing is now ahead of moon landing conspiracy theories. № Article Movement 1 Space Shuttle Challenger disaster ↑14 (15) 2 Richard Branson ↑5 (7) 3 Neil Armstrong ↑2 (5) 4 Space Shuttle Columbia disaster ↑16 (20) 5 Global Positioning System ↓2 (3) 6 Apollo 11 ↑2 (8) 7 Satellite ↑4 (11) 8 Space Shuttle Challenger ↑42 (50) 9 Apollo 13 ↓3 (6) 10 NASA ↓1 (9) For the full list of the top 1,500 popular pages within the project, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight/Popular pages (or the archived record for January). Selected Article: Yuri Gagarin Yuri Gagarin was the first man to fly in space, aboard Vostok 1 in April 1961. He was subsequently awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union, and was training for a second flight at the time of his death in 1968. His article describes him and his spaceflight experience: “ Yuri Alekseyevich Gagarin (Russian: Ю́рий Алексе́евич Гага́рин, Russian pronunciation: [ˈjurʲɪj ɐlʲɪˈksʲeɪvʲɪtɕ ɡɐˈɡarʲɪn]; 9 March 1934 – 27 March 1968), Hero of the Soviet Union, was a Soviet cosmonaut who on 12 April 1961 became the first human to journey into outer space. On 12 April 1961, Gagarin became the first man to travel into space, launching to orbit aboard the Vostok 3KA-3 (Vostok 1). His call sign in this flight was Kedr (Cedar; Russian: Кедр). During his flight, Gagarin famously whistled the tune "The Motherland Hears, The Motherland Knows" (Russian: "Родина слышит, Родина знает"). The first two lines of the song are: "The Motherland hears, the Motherland knows/Where her son flies in the sky". This patriotic song was written by Dmitri Shostakovich in 1951 (opus 86), with words by Yevgeniy Dolmatovsky. ” The article is currently assessed as C class, and had been assessed as B class prior to the criteria being redefined. Although a full reassessment has not yet been made, it seems close to the B class criteria, however details on his spaceflight experiences are somewhat lacking. It has been requested that the article be developed to Featured status by April, in time for the fiftieth anniversary of his mission. Published by WikiProject Spaceflight, if you have any content you wish to include in future newsletters, please contribute

You have recieved this newsletter because you are currently listed as a member of WikiProject Spaceflight, or because you are not a member but have requested it. If you do not wish to receive future issues, please add your name to the opt-out list.

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Spaceflight at 00:16, 2 February 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Your name has been mentioned in recent evidence for an arbitration case filed on 2010-11-18. You were not originally named as a party, but I am sending this notice proforma to editors named in evidence, before the workshop period closes. If you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Longevity/Workshop#General discussion, or elsewhere on that page or the case's four talk pages. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for Arbitration;
• Wikipedia:Arbitration guide.

Thanks, JJB 21:09, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

The Downlink
Your source for news on WikiProject Spaceflight	Issue 3, March 2011